General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Running Faster Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2007-03-27 10:52 AM

User image

Expert
634
50010025
Toronto
Subject: Running Faster

I'm well under way in prep for my first HIM and have built up enough endurance to consistenly run the required distance. I've been doing 20K LSDs for the past month and have just completed a 30k race this past weekend. At this stage, I'd like to work on improving my speed and am wondering if anyone has any tips on what types of workouts I should incorporate into my plan to make that happen.

Here's some additional info: 

  • I've been training consistenly since January
  • I run 3 times a week. My LSD around 20K while my other runs vary between 5K and 10K
  • My running candence is 87 strikes per minute regardless of pace

I have been thinking about making one of my non-LSD sessions a fartlek session while the other a tempo session in hopes of increasing my speed. I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks!



2007-03-27 11:09 AM
in reply to: #738605

User image

Runner
Subject: RE: Running Faster
Run more.  Make one of those medium sessions a tempo run.
2007-03-27 11:11 AM
in reply to: #738635

User image

Runner
Subject: RE: Running Faster

To add:

http://www.kemibe.com/training.htm

There's the secret to running faster.  Plain and simple. 

2007-03-27 11:14 AM
in reply to: #738605

User image

Cleveland, Ohio
Subject: RE: Running Faster
Congrats on around the Bay! Couple of my running buddies went up too... they had a ball, one even got hardware 2nd 55 age group men! Looked like a great day!

I doing my tempo/fartlek based on Heart Rate Zones. I also combine longer distance runs - (doing first 1/2 IM in August) Example 1:30 min run warm up(about 15 min) Alternate Z-1 for 6 min Z-3 for 4min for the duration of run

Also like to to bricks w/ harder efforts i.e. Bike for 45 min - run z1 - but include 5 min z3

It's also great to have a running partner or group - makes the works go much easier!

Cadence - try and get to 90 it does help to increase speed and effort.

Have Fun!

M

2007-03-27 11:20 AM
in reply to: #738605

User image

Veteran
325
10010010025
Subject: RE: Running Faster
If you want to run faster in running races, then yes, tempo and interval work are good ways to go. If you want to run "fast" in your HIM, if it were me, I would spend lots of time on the bike, do a bunch of bricks, and run as many hills as possible My point being that you want to feel good off the bike (hence lots of riding) and have strong legs (i.e. the hill work) so you can maintain a strong pace for the full 13 miles.
2007-03-27 11:21 AM
in reply to: #738605

User image

Veteran
303
100100100
Auburn, Alabama
Subject: RE: Running Faster
YASSO 800's

just search google for them. They are designed specifically for marathoners, but anything shorter than 800's really doesn't benefit a triathlete, unless you are a sprint specialist.

So basically what I am telling you is to do speed work @ a local track. 800's are where it's at.

sam


2007-03-27 11:31 AM
in reply to: #738605

User image

Runner
Subject: RE: Running Faster

Your cadence is fine.  In fact, I wouldn't worry about it at all (I STILL don't get why this is such a big deal, but another topic for another day).

What are your goals?  Running speed in triathlons, or stand-alone races?  I would train differently for each.  Common theme between them would be to run more often. 

2007-03-27 11:39 AM
in reply to: #738605

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2007-03-27 11:42 AM
in reply to: #738605

Cleveland, Ohio
Subject: RE: Running Faster
fyi

http://www.triendurance.com/Related.asp?PageID=14&NavID=7

Great article - on cadence - If you already have an efficent high cadence stride - I would not change that - the stride length will increase in races. I test my cadence 3 times during a longer effort - I only count 20 sec then multiply - when I need to go faster - I tend to shorten my stride - my normal is @ 90 and for me an increase to 92-94 produces faster times! Just my 2 cents!

m
2007-03-27 11:48 AM
in reply to: #738605

Expert
1169
10001002525
Charlottesville, VA
Subject: RE: Running Faster
I'm currently training for a 1/2-IM as well (Eagleman in June). With one exception, the only type of speed work my coach has had me do is tempo work in the middle of my runs, and not very much of that either.

We'll see what happens in the months to come, but it's been working so far.
2007-03-27 11:50 AM
in reply to: #738605

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Running Faster

Add another run to your week if you can.  Ideally, your long run should be more like 25-30% of your weekly volume--not 50-60%. 

Once you've done that (or if you can't for some reason), then add some tempo.  If you're prepping for your HIM, I'd suggest doing it at the end of your long run.  Start at 10' and build each week.  You can break it into intervals too (e.g., 10' tempo, 2' easy, 10' tempo for 20' total).

Other than strides (you can do them weekly as part of one of your shorter runs), you can largely ignore most of the traditional "speed" work until much closer to your A-race.  And for your first HIM, you can pretty safely ignore it altogether.  You need more endurance, not speed.

Some of the better discussion I've seen on running is here.



2007-03-27 12:03 PM
in reply to: #738605

Veteran
213
100100
Subject: RE: Running Faster
I also combine longer distance runs - (doing first 1/2 IM in August) Example 1:30 min run warm up(about 15 min) Alternate Z-1 for 6 min Z-3 for 4min for the duration of run


i like that idea. i checked your logs but didn't see you log this part. Do you do this on a long run each week, or on every long run?

thanks!
2007-03-27 1:39 PM
in reply to: #738605

Champion
9407
500020002000100100100100
Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Running Faster
After glancing at your logs there are a few things you could try:

1) Cap your long run at 1:30 - there's no need for you to run a 20k LSD every week from now until your HIM. If you still want to include some longer work going into your HM, do your longest run once per cycle (3-4 weeks).
2) Run more often - with scaling back your long run you should be able to add runs with little impact on your recovery - go to 4x first and after one cycle if you feel good, try going to 5x. Make each run at least 30' at a Z2 effort. If you are increasing frequency, don't worry about increasing speed - we don't want you sick or injured.
3) Get on your bike - as others have mentioned, your HIM run is based in large part on your run. If you can build your bike fitness to the point that 56 miles is easy, then your HIM run will be much faster.
4) It's fairly early to be focused entirely on HIM training for Sept. I would focus on training for some smaller distances with an eye on establishing solid bike and run fitness (weekly 1:30 run and 2:30 ride). If you can do these two workouts week in and week out, you should be in a great place to start training for your HIM come May/June.

Shane
2007-03-27 2:11 PM
in reply to: #738605

Expert
634
50010025
Toronto
Subject: RE: Running Faster

Wow, so many great reponses! Thank you all!

Thanks for the links on cadence and "the secret". I really enjoyed that article on Kevin Beck's site. It meshes with exactly what everyone else is saying, which is 'run more.'

I agree with a lot of the points made and reading through the responses it has helped me to clarify what it is I was looking for. I think I'm after two things. 1) In the immediate future, I'm looking to increase my speed for my next half marathon, which is in May. 2) I'm looking to increase my running speed overall so that it will benefit my HIM.

Looking at #1 I now see that increasing my speed in a bit over a month is pretty impossible. I mean, by running more I may be able to improve my pace a bit but really, let's just scrap that idea all together.

In regards to my HIM which I will focus on after the May HM, great advice on the focus on cycling. A bit of background, last year I was doing 120km rides week after week (and for a week, day after day) as my long ride. Mind you, I haven't riden that long since September of '06 so I will need to build back up but at least I know that I can do it and what it feels like. And now that the weather is getting better I will definitely get back out there and start working on that. I have a group of triathletes that I will be riding with and we are planning on adding bricks to our training rides so I'm sure that will help as well.

Incorporating 4x or 5x runs per week is tough from a time availability perspective. Instead, what if I lengthen another one of my runs for a month and if that goes well, lengthening my 3rd run of the week as well? In this way I'll have 3 long runs of about 1:30. I'm not sure what that means in terms of impacting run workouts like temp runs, strides, etc. I guess I could incoporate them into my long runs.

The knowledge on BT continues to amaze. Thanks again everyone!

2007-03-27 3:22 PM
in reply to: #739008

Champion
9407
500020002000100100100100
Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Running Faster
caius - 2007-03-27 4:11 PM
1) In the immediate future, I'm looking to increase my speed for my next half marathon, which is in May. 2) I'm looking to increase my running speed overall so that it will benefit my HIM.

Looking at #1 I now see that increasing my speed in a bit over a month is pretty impossible. I mean, by running more I may be able to improve my pace a bit but really, let's just scrap that idea all together.



In responding to your first post, I wasn't even thinking about adding some speed for your HM. If you are looking to add speed for that, there are severl things that you could do over the next 6 weeks in order to add some speed for race day.

As you've just completed a 30k race you should have the fitness to use a half marathon plan. You may have to modify it as they will usually call for more than 3 days of running, but the plans could help you build some speed over the next few weeks for a solid effort in May.

Shane
2007-03-27 3:41 PM
in reply to: #738605

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Running Faster

oh my oh my, some good advice and unfortunately some not so good. Before making any changes to your current plan listen to Scout or JohnnyKay about running more.

I have't read the whole thing in detail (although I did notice the not so good posts ) so I apologize if you already posted this, but when is your race? what's you avg weekly running volume for the past 3-6 months? is running your limiter? Do you currently do any goal pace runs? do you have any recent results for like a 10K, 1/2 mary?



2007-03-27 4:58 PM
in reply to: #738605

Cleveland, Ohio
Subject: RE: Running Faster
Ghost:

It's a workout I've got coming up next week - I'm working with a coach - Rick Kattouf - so my workouts vary greatly - depending on what's coming up - I'm doing a LC Du - in VA as one of my "a" races - in two weeks - then 1/2 marathon - Indy 500 - the program i've been on has been all heart rates based - I've ben running just 3 days a week - example wed 1:30 Z- w/ 4 Min z 3 pick ups - Thurs 1:10 z-1 w/ 1800 swim - Friday Run 1:30 10 min z1/10 min z2

My background is running - 13 years - started biking last year in March and Swimming in Dec.

There are always 1000 ways to skin the cat - My program is working for me - all I can ask for - injury free - and getting faster - with less effort!!

Would like to see Clearwater!!

M
2007-03-27 6:29 PM
in reply to: #738661

Expert
902
500100100100100
Wylie, TX
Subject: RE: Running Faster

haygosl - 2007-03-27 11:21 AM YASSO 800's just search google for them. They are designed specifically for marathoners, but anything shorter than 800's really doesn't benefit a triathlete, unless you are a sprint specialist. So basically what I am telling you is to do speed work @ a local track. 800's are where it's at. sam

Another vote for Yasso 800s

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Running Faster Rss Feed